Curse

Xenrath · Apr 24, 2006, 01:47 PM // 13:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaxan Razor

The funniest thing is, purchasing character slots was a player's idea. When it was raised on forums, the entire community thought; "Hey! That's an awesome idea!"..

The Anet decide to do it..and suddenly:

"they're ripping us off!"

That's just point scoring using fallacious logic. At no point beforehand were any prices/costs mentioned. I keep seeing this "people were willing to pay $15" comment? A few people on a forum or two does not equate to all the players. I for one have been consistent in my request (look through post history if you must) that it should have been a bit lower price than it is.

It also has nothing to do with "mommies and daddies pay for everything" - again, that's poor debating skills at work. For example, I run my own company... I can VERY easily afford this kind of stuff. Does that mean it's necessarily considered good value? Again, it's debatable. Does that mean the persons who raise it as something to discuss/debate are whiners? That they don't know the value of anything? Their parents pay for everything? No, and such remarks contribute nothing to topics (this one or in general) - in fact they could have the reverse effect of discouraging people from taking part in a thread for fear of being flamed...

Just to clarify I'm not trying to be attacking or anything here, and this isn't directed at anyone in particular, just noticed these kinds of comments and posts weren't quite so prolific before.

Muse of Shadows · Apr 24, 2006, 01:56 PM // 13:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Fox

Are you kidding me. You made that long post just to conclude that if you don't get your way everyone else should be be denied something they would love to have implemented. Now that's inconsiderate.

No, what I am saying is that if ArenaNet is going to do this (I think its a great idea if done correctly), then those of us that, as stated in my previous post, supported the company while obtaining extra slots instead of b**ching about not having enough should be given some sort of oportunity to merge accounts - otherwise they are basicly rewarding complainers and undercutting loyal customers.

Never before have I complained about something ArenaNet did. I have disagree'd with many of their choices, but never complained. What they are doing now however needs to be seriously modified or removed from their plans.

As for you that are talking about merging accounts being increadably difficult - I am only a mediocor programer, and if their database was setup correctly to begin with, this would not be that difficult. Several ideas come to mind right away - I may be incorrect as I have never done game programing, however ARRAY's seem to be a good idea - each account is basicly listing what is on it in an array, which is tied to a main database that holds the information on what those links mean. I can see a few simple security issues with this, but they should be easly solvable.

Further - they recently did an entire game rollback of 1 hour incase you didnt remember - THAT I would bet was far more difficult than merging accounts as a one-time thing - especialy if they say they need a week or so to complete the merge - they should have plenty of time, hell, Ill even settle for 2 weeks, or MABY 3 if there is no other way.

I know quite a few people who own multiple accounts - they are all upset about this for the same reason I am. NOT because they decided to make character slots purchasable, but because there is nothing available for those that already own multiple accounts, which once again, makes us feel as if WE are being cheated for supporting the company

Rayea · Apr 24, 2006, 02:21 PM // 14:21

ah, but would you remain satisfied to wait a week to maybe threee weeks if YOU COULDNT USE ETHER ACCOUNT while they were merging?

its still basically choice...those that chose to buy extra accounts now want to merger them, while those that were tempted, but for whatever reason DIDNT are happy to buy new slots or leave it and not buy.

and would you be happy if they merged accounts, but, and this is a BIG BUT...
all the unlocks on the account with the lesser amount were removed, along with all faction ect, maybe even items?

boxterduke · Apr 24, 2006, 02:31 PM // 14:31

To the OP, I understand with you but they are not forcing anyone to buy extra slots.

It is an "option"

Dark Suoon · Apr 24, 2006, 02:50 PM // 14:50

for ppl who are saying that Anet are cheap u guys are completely wrong.... look at WoW u gotta pay to play.Guildwar's slot idea is a great idea so if u dont like it dont buy the slots and they do u see them make u pay alot of money in a month? look the character slots are optional and i dont think alot of ppl will buy those things every hr or something like that.. personally i think after a month and i need it ill do it... THE END

Zaxan Razor · Apr 24, 2006, 03:39 PM // 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenrath

That's just point scoring using fallacious logic. At no point beforehand were any prices/costs mentioned. I keep seeing this "people were willing to pay $15" comment? A few people on a forum or two does not equate to all the players. I for one have been consistent in my request (look through post history if you must) that it should have been a bit lower price than it is.

It also has nothing to do with "mommies and daddies pay for everything" - again, that's poor debating skills at work. For example, I run my own company... I can VERY easily afford this kind of stuff. Does that mean it's necessarily considered good value? Again, it's debatable. Does that mean the persons who raise it as something to discuss/debate are whiners? That they don't know the value of anything? Their parents pay for everything? No, and such remarks contribute nothing to topics (this one or in general) - in fact they could have the reverse effect of discouraging people from taking part in a thread for fear of being flamed...

Just to clarify I'm not trying to be attacking or anything here, and this isn't directed at anyone in particular, just noticed these kinds of comments and posts weren't quite so prolific before.

So how much did you expect to pay? $1?

why $10 do you ask? Well, to be honest, its being slightly fair to the people who have already splashed out on a second account:

10 x 4 = $40

I didnt mention the fact that parents buy everything for people..where did that come from? O_o

if its much lower..say even $5..then you can get 8 characters for the same cost as the original game..which is...not logical.

studentochaos · Apr 24, 2006, 03:39 PM // 15:39

I am elated by the news and confused by people being upset. If the game with 4 slots was worth buying for $50 why is it worth less now that you can add to it? I am just happy because now my account can have all classes for PVE and still have a PvP slot. Best of all worlds IMO.

RTSFirebat · Apr 24, 2006, 03:48 PM // 15:48

Very good points throughout this thread, the OP's was a work of art

Being able to buy slots is a step in the right direction, because some people will want to buy more. However I think A.net do need to consider how they would be able to merge two Guild Wars accounts together, because again I think a lot of people will want this, and it would be good for business.

People flame and complain because they don't get their way.

Zaxan Razor · Apr 24, 2006, 03:58 PM // 15:58

Sometimes the way the community complains about stuff im scared that Anet will stop offering us fantastic options like this..

There was a fantastic point made earlier..if they grant account merging, and then people complain when it takes a couple of weeks to merge your account..

I can see that happening..and once again, people would have no case for being ungrateful..not that that ever stopped anyone before..

Andy_M · Apr 24, 2006, 06:01 PM // 18:01

Heh, wondered when people would start flaming the anet haters. Of course Anet are going to make as much cash as they can. Why else would they only offer an extra 2 slots ? Anyone who didn't see this coming a mile off is not functioning on all cylinders..

Took longer than I thought. Better than people being rude to first-time posters I say (go elitism!).

calamitykell · Apr 24, 2006, 07:13 PM // 19:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy_M

Heh, wondered when people would start flaming the anet haters. Of course Anet are going to make as much cash as they can. Why else would they only offer an extra 2 slots ? Anyone who didn't see this coming a mile off is not functioning on all cylinders..

Took longer than I thought. Better than people being rude to first-time posters I say (go elitism!).

Where did they say they only offer 2 extra slots?

twicky_kid · Apr 24, 2006, 09:28 PM // 21:28

All the people complaining are those with multiple accounts. So you already have you multiple slots.

Anet cannot merge accounts its a security risk to YOU the players. Instead of hacking your account and just taking your items they can merge your account with theirs and now its lost FOREVER. If they stole mulitple accounts they could put it up on Ebay to sell as a slot account. That would give hackers even more incentive you get your account. Its not a good idea. The consequences are worse then xfering your items via friend or guildy.

The price is fine be me because its an OPTION to buy slots. You don't have to if you don't want to pay or need them.

Besides the most slots you will need to buy on a single account is 1-2. The rest of your slots can come from future chapters of GW. Remember there is going to be a release every 6 months now not the 1 year we have been waiting for recently. If they give 2 slots for merging chapters then that's 4 slots per year. That is enough slots.

This also gives you the option of buying slots for your current account if you don't want the future chapters. That will keep it fair for everyone.

When they make the pvp premade where we can save them people will complain because they bought more slots so they don't have to reroll all the time. If Anet says we are working on it trust them. They ARE working on it. They cannot however come out and say we are working on that now and will be available xxx date. If they do not meet that date then the players complain even more. At least they let you know about this before factions comes out.

It is nearly impossible to please people. We make a suggestion that majority of GW agrees on that needs to be added. Anet adds it just like the suggestions and then the same players complain about the addition. Learn to be thankfull for what you have received and move on.

pokesoul · Apr 25, 2006, 02:32 AM // 02:32

OK i have played SWG, WOW, EQ, EQ 2, DDO, and a few others and my choice for gaming is Guild Wars. I had 3 accounts on SWG and payed $45 a month to play. Cost really isn't the issue for me. It is the fact that having all my characters on one account would be awesome much easier to tranfer things, no double E-mail accounts and so on....I simply ask let people buy the slots and transfer their characters into those slots...which I know would not be that hard to do...a simple addition to the play NCsoft account manager and there you go. As long as passwords and adresses are required there should be no major problem with this...I mean you would have to know the E-mail, Password and Account Number to do it.

Thanks again,

Poke

Oh and Twicky who says if they sell slots they will offer them for free with future expansions? I mean there has even been talk of GW going pay to play...(which would be fien by me it would get rid of most of the idiots)...but if there is any truth to that than they are apparently looking for a way to make money.....would not offering slots with expansions but selling them instead be a good way to do that? Oh and btw the info was leaked on another site before GW ever put it on their own...so was GW going to tell us about the slots before factions?

avoll · Apr 25, 2006, 02:51 AM // 02:51

bout time
now if they can go ahead and let us buy the new slots
that would be super cool

made me want to start playing the game again
now that I can have a char of every class
all I can say is hell yes

I also have more then one acount but haveN all your chars on one acount is way better
and well worth paying 10 bucks a slot
now I can give my other acounts away to friends

Loviatar · Apr 25, 2006, 02:55 AM // 02:55

Quote:

=pokesoul]which I know would not be that hard to do...a simple addition to the play NCsoft account manager and there you go.

not that easy to be honest

Quote:

Oh and Twicky who says if they sell slots they will offer them for free with future expansions?

ANET did. new professions will have slots so you dont have to delete an old friend

Quote:

I mean there has even been talk of GW going pay to play

ALEX WEEKES FROM NCSoft

Quote:

I know it's incredibly boring, but I can only repeat what Gaile has said when asked about rumours in the past:

Until we confirm something, don't set your heart on it being true. If it's a rumour, chances are it's going to be wrong. That's the way these things go, a lot of the time. Someone will talk about something they'd *like* to have, and overtime as more people talk about it it gets twisted into "I heard they are going to do this..."
__________________
Alex 'GhostRaptor' Weekes
Guild Wars Community Relations
NCsoft Europe

Quote:

Oh and btw the info was leaked on another site before GW ever put it on their own...so was GW going to tell us about the slots before factions?

they have made many informal information posts to let people know in the past so yes

avoll · Apr 25, 2006, 03:13 AM // 03:13

if they make guildwars pay to play
it will be the death of the game
I know I would never play it ever agian
and I think alot of people would do the same

thats why people love guildwars so much becuse they are for free online play
besides the fact its a great game
and I would like to think they would never sell out

strcpy · Apr 25, 2006, 04:03 AM // 04:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by dgb

To now turn around and say well we can now add more accounts is a slap to those dedicated players who paid for the second account - who spent time unlocking a second account, the frustration of transfering between the two accounts etc.

It probably is so. But that wasn't intentional, just part of the learning process. They are better off doing this than not even if it makes some mad - kinda like the roll back they had before.

Quote:

Furthermore they are saying you are going to have to buy factions twice if you did that, rather than once if you waited. I knew it was a risk I was taking when I paid for a second account, I just didn't expect A-net to come back three months later saying that there was a better way than buying a second account - lets have some communication please, people have been crying out for more slots ever since the game went live.

You seem to understand - you knew it was a risk. There will always be someone and sometime that you had to purchase it before the announcement. I doubt they sat on the info once decided - it's too popular an idea (and even if they did the samething still holds true - you took a known risk and got bit by it, don't take the risk if you can't handle the bad end of the deal). I don't think they can see into the future to warn you that in the next few months someone will bring up doing this and they decide too. Anet may write some nifty software, but they aren't that nifty - just be glad you didn't buy it the day before the anouncement (I can assure you some people did). But, again, the same thing - they can not tell you before they make the decision and there will always be a "before anouncement" period that someone will have done the wrong thing.

Quote:

Clearly A-net has some ability to merge/modify entries on the database - on Friday there will be a lot of people merging Prophecies and Factions accounts and when this goes live there will be a number of people adding slots - modifying the database.

No one has said they do not have the ability - SQL has modify semantics that are well known. Plus merging Prophecies and factions is a VERY different thing that merging to existing prophecies. Even simple things like the two accounts do not have the same unlocks what do you do? This has to be decided, coded, and tested before hand.

Plus "prohecies + prophecies" is a true merge or join action of multiple records and not trivial. The other is unlocking access to content and not merging at all. Think of it like this, merging two Prophecies accounts is like taking two different translations of a book and making one single translation out of it. It's possible, it's even been done, but it's not so easy. Prophecies + factions is like if they suddenly found a new chapter and added it in - much easier to do.

Quote:

Would a one off amnesty allowing merges of accounts really hurt you that much A-net? Even if it's technically difficult, are there really that many accounts that it will be that difficult to do? We've paid for extra character slots allready - in fact we've paid more than we would under the new scheme - given a choice I don't want two seperate accounts, I want them both on one.

It may, I don't know thier structure of thier DB or thier code base. There is also how much risk is there to corrupting the whole DB. I can't say it is easy or hard, though in my experience it is almost always in the "hard" category simply because on large mission critical databases the amount of testing is huge. Even if the code is simple to write you want to make sure the whole game isn't down for a day because of a stupid bug you failed to test.

Also the number of accounts has nothing to do with how hard it is to do. Once the code is written and tested it's just as easy to do 2 accounts as it is a million (and the code is going to pretty much be the same either way). The difference is mainly in how long the operation would take. Think of it this way (the analogy isn't perfect), someone needs a wheel - is it harder to make the wheel to roll one mile or 5 miles? Pretty much the same - how long it rolls is irrelevant (unless it becomes some specialised endurance. In fact it would take the same amount of work to make a wheel that would roll at all. The hard part is producing a wheel that rolls and testing that it rolls (commercial stuff must be verfied before selling it), once you have done that it will roll both short and long distances just as easy.

If you are old enough to have a job just think about this - is anything you do as simple and straight forward as one would think or many people say (especially the "All you have to do is..." type things)? No, I bet not. GW is millions of lines of code, thier DB has at least a million entries (at least one for each game sold), do you honestly think that you can be fully sure that the one little change you want will have no effect on anything else? Again, think to your job - would you let a random person off the street change something because the *knew* it wouldn't effect you even though they do not have any real idea how you work?

It may be that easy, it may not and it doesn't even have much to do with how good they code - you can't write software or design databases that anything is easy to do. You try and make it as easy to modify as you can, but you have to make choices and this may, or may not, be easy to do.

T1Cybernetic · Apr 25, 2006, 04:47 AM // 04:47

Some people seem to have missed a little information so i thought it best to add it!

Taken from www.guildwars.com front page.

Quote:

Originally Posted by http://www.guildwars.com/

Character Slots Offered ------- ------- ------- 20 April 2006
We are happy to announce that you will be able purchase additional character
slots for your Guild Wars account beginning this summer for $9.99 U.S. (or equivalent).
Each new slot will enable you to add a new character to your account with full access
to all of the content your current characters enjoy. We'll have more details to share soon!

This is some of the best news to grace my eyes for a few months, I have two
accounts but i'll be buying a couple of slots as soon as is humanly possible.

Lugosi · Apr 25, 2006, 04:51 AM // 04:51

Well, I have just recently bought a second account, after I had read multiple times that there won't ever be the opportunity to buy additional character-slots. Now that it suddenly *is* an option, it makes me want to kick myself for having bought that second account just two months ago, because instead I could have spent the money for the simple purchase of additional character-slots for my primary account.

Making it possible to merge existing prophecies-accounts to *one* would of course be the best solution, whereby I don't really understand the whole deal with those people who complain about the faction/fame/rank/unlock thing here.
Look at it from a neutral point:
Assume you have an existing account with everything unlocked, a bunch of fame, maybe also a high rank.
Assume you find yourself buying four additional character-slots for this existing account.
Then these four *newly purchased* character-slots would automatically profit from the *old* unlocks, fame and rank.

Now let's look at the possibility of merging two existing accounts.
You choose which account is the base-account, you choose which account's character-slots will be merged with the base-account, and you should get?
Exactly what the above gave you - an account with eight character-slots that all have the same unlocks/fame/rank - based on the *base-account*.

So now explain to me the issue with it, if you will.

Another thing that I wonder about is this:
Pretty much any time when somebody brings up something like "this or that should be possible" (see account-merging) a lot of people on the forums jump in and explain in long, long posts why the asked for feature is not possible or too difficult or just bring up a lot of reasons that speak against it.

The funny thing about it though is, that, unless these people are from A-Net and just post "under-cover" here, they really don't have a clue if what they write really fits the facts - an example would be how it was explained over and over, by people on this forum, why there *WON'T* be additional character-slots for purchase.
I remember even arguments like "A-Net has stated several times that they feel it would unbalance the game if some players had more character-slots than others". Well, I guess the people at A-Net have changed their mind then, or *gasp* maybe the ones who wrote things like that didn't really know what was going on at the company's headquarter?

So where I'm coming from is: Again and again I see a lot of explanations for why something can't be done or won't happen, but there's a significant lack of *official* statements about such things. You can write here "this is impossible" or "this won't happen", but really, unless somebody from A-Net *confirms* this you won't know what's possible for them and/or what they're going to do in the future.

Thrade · Apr 25, 2006, 07:22 AM // 07:22

People ranting about what is and isn't possible is just human nature really, most people want to believe they know everything, and convince others that they know everything.
People don't let an actual lack of knowledge/experience get in the way. If it makes some sense in there heads, they will go with it, and try to convince you that there way is the truth, because after all .. it makes perfect sense to them.

To make some broad points.
None of us here know anything about how guildwars is programmed, and how our accounts are stored. Some can speculate, (and of course at least half the people here who's story makes it sound like they have programming experience ... won't have any more knowledge on the subject then a brick wall) We don't know whether its 'impossible', 'unreasonably hard/time consuming', 'moderate chance of corruption', 'too much of a security risk' .. or any of the other finer details that haven't been considered.

<some speculation> To compare the merger of the accounts when factions comes out with prophecies, and multiple prophecies accounts is a bit silly, as one way is adding blank slots, and not needing to copy, merge, change anything, and the other is doing .. something to multiple accounts .. making sure nothing breaks with characters, items. </speculation>
Clearly different, but again, none of us can say how much harder.

It might be nice if anet told us specific reasons why accounts won't be merged, buts its not something they are obliged to tell us, its nice that they tell us as much as they do, but they don't have to tell us everything.

Remember, everytime someone who doesn't know what there talking about says 'how hard can it be?' ... god kills a kitten.
Please, think of the kittens.